Anonymous asked:
4thwavenow answered:
Except that there is no such scientific proof. The few studies that have been done have been of adults, many of whom had already “transitioned” and/or taken hormones (so causality cannot be inferred). And those few studies have been refuted.
In order to prove being transgender is innate, researchers would have to do brain scans of a huge number of newborn babies who had had zero life experience outside the womb. Then those babies would have to be left alone, allowed to grow up with no one telling them they are the opposite sex (since experience molds kids’ brains). The people would have to be followed into adulthood, and then the scans from infancy compared. There would have to be some indication that the babies’ brains differed as indicated by their declared identity as adults. You’d also have to have a large control group of babies who grew up not thinking they were the opposite sex, and find a brain region that strongly correlated “felt” gender with actual sex in the two groups.
No such research has been done. No one is recruiting babies for such studies. In fact, the research that has been done shows that the vast majority (75% or more) of gender dysphoric kids outgrow the feeling of being the opposite sex and grow up to be gay or lesbian.
http://www.jpehs.co.uk/2013/12/03/brain-scans-prove-there-is-no-difference-between-male-and-female-brains/vulvapeople:
“I know more than actual scientists.”
I know more than you on this topic. The actual scientists have already disproved the brain sex theory. Remember you were the one going around making the psuedo scientific claim trans women have ‘female brains’ (they don’t). You made the false claim not us. The studies that made the claim that trans women have ‘female brains‘ were faulty and don’t hold up to higher standards. Also it doesn’t take a genius to figure out the claim is bullshit. Go read Delusions of gender by Cordelia Fine it is all about neurosexism and gender socialisation (if femininity or masculinity is socialised it isn’t innate).
“Go read propaganda it’ll make you change your mind”
Lmao no thanks. I’d rather listen to actual scientists than some dumbass who thinks sex isn’t real yet blames all their problems on menNo dickhead radfems know biological sex is real (you are thinking of trans activists) we are arguing that they brain sex theory is bullshit and the real scientists (who aren’t feminists) have shown that the sexist lady brain theory is bullshit. Sure there are differences between the average woman and man’s brain but that doesn’t mean that we have a ‘lady brain’ (naturally can’t do maths, are more suited to housework, have brains more suited to being subservient etc.)
The brain is influenced by external factors and adapts to the environment because that is how humans survive. If trans women had female brains (meaning femininity was innate and some males are born with wiring just like a woman’s) why would they need hormones, therapy and femininity lessons? How come gender non conforming women exist? Also if their is such thing as a lady brain how come women are pressured to act ‘ladylike‘? If it was innate we wouldn’t need to be pressured into femininity.
Actual scientists have already shown that the brain is more malleable than people think and femininity and masculinity (gender roles) is more cultural than biological. Also Cordelia Fine is legitimate go read the book. Also arguing against neurosexism isn’t propaganda but you claiming trans women have ‘female brains‘ is (not actually backed by science).
Okay but:
Men and women have different brains.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/men-women-different-brains1.htm
http://www.livescience.com/41619-male-female-brains-wired-differently.html
Also, all your questions have presumably been answered in this post.
Incidentally:
http://www.dsm5.org/documents/gender%20dysphoria%20fact%20sheet.pdf
Thanks.
How much is socialisation and how much is is biological? That is pretty fucking important. Also male scientists often biased and try to ‘prove’ women are naturally feminine and/or inferior. The brain sex theory has been used to discriminate against women for centuries so it is more than a little bullshit when trans women (male) claim to have it despite a lack of hard science to back it up.
Your earlier claim was that trans women have ‘female brains’ there isn’t real evidence to suggest that. If you believe is ‘lady brain‘ why do you think some males have it that is rather contradictory. All the explanations for it are really just speculation.
scientificradfem and appropriately-inappropriate do you have anything to add?
So basically you’re saying science isn’t real because it discriminates against women? If you clicked on the links you’d actually see that mostly, it’s biological. And I already gave you sources backing up the fact that trans women have more female (not fully female, my bad) brains than cis men do.
Your reading comprehension is a bit off. I am asking how much is socialised and how much is biological. I stated that there isn’t enough hard science to prove that some men have were born with a ’female brain’ (there isn’t). I also stated that male researchers are often biased because they want to ‘prove‘ their pre-existing conclusions about women. You should research on that. Your links aren’t necessarily true.
Transwomen don’t have ‘more female brains‘ taking artificial hormones doesn’t mean your brain is female. I have seen how trans activists behave and they do not act like women do they act like the typical misogynist man. If they had ‘female brains’ how come so many transwomen have the same criminality rate as the general male population?
There no such thing as ‘cisgender‘ or ’cissexism’. If you want to claim there is do you have anything to say about the ‘some women have penises‘, ‘some men have vaginas‘ and ‘men get abortions too’ rhetoric trans activists often say? Or how they say that their penises aren’t female? (because they ‘identify’ as women/female).
My reading comprehension is fine. That’s how I know you’re incredibly stupid in trying to say scientists want to oppress women.
Dysphoria is not “I’m a man that knows how to turn on a vacuum.” It’s “my body is wrong”
What
They’re saying that the other commenter (the fucktard saying that science is misogynistic) is basically equating being fucking transsexual to defying gender stereotypes like being a man that cleans the house.
Scientists can definitely be prejudiced - look at the “negro brain” theory.
Also, check out Gina Rippon’s work.
If brain sex is real and trans women have “female” brains, why do so many exhibit typical male behavior? Why are they so entitled? Why do they make everything about them? Why do they threaten women with rape and murder? Why are a significant number of them in prison for pedophilia, rape, and/or murder? Why does the most comprehensive study on trans women indicate that they retain male pattern violence post-transition?
You can’t have it both ways. Either brain sex is real, and trans women’s behavior makes it clear that they don’t have “female” brains, or it isn’t real, and trans women’s behavior makes it clear they were the beneficiaries of male socialization. Which is it?
THE. IS. NO. Female. Brain. Shut up.
http://www.jpehs.co.uk/2013/12/03/brain-scans-prove-there-is-no-difference-between-male-and-female-brains/
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/07/brain-science-ditch-male-female-cliche
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-neurosexism-feeds-stereotypes-about-mens-and-womens-brains
http://sexnotgender.com/brain-sex-does-not-exist/http://recode.net/2014/10/09/neurosexism-brains-gender-and-tech/
http://womensenews.org/story/women-in-science/131212/calling-all-female-brains-stop-the-neurosexism
http://frithmind.org/socialminds/2014/12/11/neurosexism-a-conversation-with-cordelia-fine/
http://www.australianreview.net/digest/2012/11/burns.html
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life/the-gender-myth-20100908-151d3.html
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/culturelab/2010/09/fighting-back-against-neurosexism.html
http://cellularscale.blogspot.de/2012/02/neurosexism-and-delusions-of-gender.html
And then there’s this, by a neuroscientist. The only thing differentiating male/female brains is part of the hypothalamus responsible for cyclic ovulation. That’s it.
http://www.bu.edu/wgs/files/2013/10/Scarbrough-Womens-Liberation-is-Based-on-Sex-not-Gender.pdf
And I stand by my original post: The only way to prove innate differences between male/female brains would be MRI studies of large numbers of infants who had no exposure to life experience yet.
The brain is plastic. It is MOLDED by experience. Any studies of brains of living human beings who are having experiences (i.e., pretty much everyone past the immediate post-natal period) are inherently flawed. It’s risible that most people pushing the male/female brain meme generally rely on the Zhou et al studies, which were of long-time, adult transsexuals who had **already** been on hormone treatments for years.
And here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3176412/
The author concludes: “There are no “true” “male” and “female” brains out there to discover. The true nature of the brain is that its form is highly variable. This variability is created by the interaction of genes (on sex chromosomes and on autosomal chromosomes), hormones (gonadal and others) and environment, in utero and throughout life.”
