4thwavenow

Facebook wars: Thanks, mom, for not shooting me up with crap

4thwavenow:

https://www.facebook.com/markangelo.cummings
https://www.facebook.com/lynna.lopez98

Mark Angelo Cummings and Lynna Arielle Lopez have thrown down the gauntlet and are hosting battles on their Facebook pages. Formerly trans activists, they are now both fiercely campaigning against the current wave of childhood transitioning. Comments are running in both directions. Here is one from Mark’s GenderTrender link/post today that should interest my followers:

My daughter between ages 2-11 was a massive tom boy.  She wore flannels, blue jogging pants insisted her hair be cut short, told people her name was Bobby, loved playing with “boy” toys, hated dresses, cried when I tried to do her hair, refused any “girly” clothing, etc.  

If I would have “trusted” in her instinct, I can’t imagine the horrors she would be facing now.  Because upon entering fifth grade, my daughter suddenly wanted skirts, started playing with barbies, and turned into a more “feminine girl” than myself over a few week period out of no where.  

She wavered back and forth until age 14, played with her identity and her orientation, but now, she’s SOLIDLY enjoying being a woman, is engaged, and is “feminine” in the likes that can actually irritate me LOL

We were talking just the other day about this whole trans issue because of my recent interview.  The FIRST thing she said was:  “I am so lucky you weren’t like those parents and didn’t drag me to the doctor to shoot me up with crap. The trans community talks about high rates of suicide, that’s gonna get bigger, because I would seriously kill myself if I had to be stuck in a dude body because at 8 I wanted to be a boy and you took it seriously…

4thwavenow Mark Angelo Cummings Lynna Arielle Lopez trans teens trans kids gnc kids gnc teens trans parenting gender critical parenting leave the kids alone!
generibus

Anonymous asked:

Maybe you should accept your child and not force them to be female

4thwavenow answered:

Has anybody ever heard of a teenager who can be “forced” to do anything? Discussing and even challenging does not equal “forcing.”

generibus:

Also, being female is permanent. Human beings can’t change sex. 

Right. They can’t. Of course, daring to point out a simple biological fact like sexual dimorphism can start a wave of viral outrage on Tumblr and a chorus of cyber voices screaming “child abuser!!!!”

But to the questioner’s point, if my child wants to “identify” as male, I can’t force her not to. A teenager’s mind is their own, as is their choice to dress, cut their hair, and present themselves physically to the world as they choose.

It’s ironic to me that the people accusing me of “forcing” a teenager to do anything want to force me to cave under the pressure of the Thought Police Squad. Because talking about chromosomes to a 16-year-old–or on an Internet blog, evidently–is tantamount to beating a helpless child into submission. Or as one commenter on this post put it, a parent challenging a teen to consider a different viewpoint is equivalent to a prison guard oppressing an inmate.

generibus gnc teens gender critical parenting trans parenting gender nonconforming teens trans teens Thought police
skeletrender

pizzaback-deactivated20201011 asked:

What would you do if one of your children were trans? kick them out of your home? send them to conversion therapy? deny their identity until they hate themselves for it? I'm always curious to know how radfem mothers would handle an actual trans person entering their lives.

slaybia-majora-deactivated20160 answered:

My children wouldn’t feel the need to “identify” as anything other than themselves because they understand that how they look and what they wear doesn’t change anything. They are smart enough to know that sex can’t be changed and that nothing is “feminine” or “masculine”.  

skeletrender:

slaybia-majora:

4thwavenow:

dbrvnk:

I can totally see what you are saying with this. At the same time though… it does seem like you are seriously underestimating the influence of the outside world on children. 

(cut for length)

You raise some interesting points here. There is such a delicate balance with teenagers, who tend to discount their parents’ advice and opinions about just about everything. And at this stage of life, it’s easy to want to act NOW, future consequences be damned.

(cut for length)

Pretty much what 4thwavenow said.

People seem to think that if one of my children came to me and told me they would rather be a different gender than I would suddenly hate them and throw them out onto the street, but that couldn’t be farther from the truth. If I were ever faced with that, they would need me even more than ever and abandoning one of my children is never an option to me.

The bottom line is that I would find them the help they needed to get to the root of why they felt it necessary to transition as opposed to simply and suddenly forcing them into a transition they may regret.

Okay but what you’re describing sounds dangerously close to conversion therapy.

I know a lot of people (especially since John Jolie-Pitt started becoming a big media sensation) think that parents of transgender youth are the ones with all the agency when it comes to their children’s transition. In reality, a lot of us have to *beg* our parents to let/help us transition.

I appreciate the tone of your reblog. I think what I, and maybe some other parents, are trying to do is suggest that young people explore alternatives before–or better yet, **instead of**–making the huge, permanently life-altering decisions involved in hormones and surgical treatments. And parents like me (and I am not like the religious nuts who talk about sin and hellfire), because we want to protect our kids from making decisions they may regret later, just aren’t down with financing and supporting these invasive medical interventions. 

With respect, I totally get that you and some others have felt thwarted by parents when you really, really feel medical transition is the right thing for you. But what alarms me is that the trend in society is toward speeding up transition, dismissing any doubts, even when those doubts are based on legitimate concerns about the permanent effects of hormones and surgeries. There is really no going back from many of the effects, especially for girls who transition. If you’ve spent any time at all reading the writing of women who have detransitioned,  they now have to struggle for the rest of their lives with the changes wrought by “T” to their vocal folds, their reproductive organs, their hair follicles, and (in some cases) their brains (many talk about being much angrier than they were before). Yes, I know it all seems like the right thing now. Maybe it will STILL feel right to you when you’re 40, 60, 80. But you don’t know now. You CAN’T know. 

Why not just be “gender nonconforming” without tampering with your body until the frontal lobes of your brain are fully developed? Look it up: That doesn’t happen until the mid-20s. Why does that even matter? Because that part of the brain is in charge of things like awareness of future consequences; impulse control; perspective; judgment. 

Do whatever you want short of medical intervention, then see how you feel in a few years.  And you know, making big medical decisions is an ADULT thing. You can be angry at your parents for not agreeing with, and not paying for, a decision you want to make;  but it seems fair to me to ask a child to reach the age of medical majority, then work a job, or do whatever else it takes, to pay for and cope like an adult with all the expenses and difficulties of transition, if that’s what they really want at age 18+. 

It’s hard, because a lot of therapists, and the media, are telling you that transition is the way. Why don’t those adults sway your parents? Well, I don’t know how many of you have parents who have bothered to look more deeply into this, but the long-term effects of medical transition have not been studied  and there are some worrying indicators. (My blog is full of those indicators.)

And this is the part where (if you’re under 30 especially) you will probably stop listening: Trust me when I tell you that I was 100% certain about a lot of things between ages 15-25 that I have totally done a 180 on as an adult. For what it’s worth.

You guys forget that parents were adolescents once. Yeah, I know. I sound like your mom. It’s easy to make parents the enemy for not granting you exactly what you want, when you want it. It’s much harder to realize most of us are asking you to slow down because we actually do love you.

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“I’m not sure if I am transgender, but I’ve read enough stories to know that I don’t want to suffer with dysphoria and regret for the rest of my life.”

Transgender reality says: The gist of this seems to be that this is a guy who likes to crossdress for sexual reasons, who feels like being male is “not all bad”, but dislikes stereotypes like being expected to “be stoic”. He’s unsure if he’s reading too much into these feelings….he has been reading trans stories online. A very common theme in these narratives, as we have seen many times on this blog, is that being trans is a lifelong condition and that the only way of treating it is by invasive medical treatments.

One of the replies:

It really, really sounds like you’re trans. I think you should definitely see a therapist and start working toward transition.”

pressure to transition trans teens gnc teens gender nonconforming teens
vulvapeople

vulvapeople:

immortaltransprincess:

4thwavenow:

“Last month, in a program specifically addressed to medical students, Dr. Johanna Olson, director of the LA Children’s Hospital transgender children clinic, admitted that she has been “skipping the blockers” and placing children as young as twelve directly on cross-sex hormones, starting with her very first patient…

Prior to her work transgendering children Dr. Olson …used her medical credentials to testify against a …platform to lower the voting age. Dr. Olson testified that the brains of those under eighteen were not yet competent for the complex decision making involved in choosing a political candidate. “

********************************************************

A 17-year-old is too immature to vote, but has the wisdom to make a medical decision that will require lifetime treatment, and permanently alter the brain and body. 

Ok….

Trans children and adults have to strongly push for a diagnosis. It is not easy. If parents or doctors pushed children into identifying as transgender when they are simply non-conforming, that would definitely be child abuse, but there is no evidence that this happens

Doctors have been diagnosing GID in kids as young as 18 months.

The doctor this article is about, Johanna Olson, is administering HRT to adolescents, sterilizing them, in defiance of WPATH standards, and she claims that no child ever changes his/her mind about transitioning.  Excuse me if I don’t believe your claim that it’s hard to get a diagnosis, especially in Johanna Olson’s office.

vulvapeople gnc kids gnc teens trans pressure trans kids
dbrvnk-deactivated20151108

pizzaback-deactivated20201011 asked:

What would you do if one of your children were trans? kick them out of your home? send them to conversion therapy? deny their identity until they hate themselves for it? I'm always curious to know how radfem mothers would handle an actual trans person entering their lives.

slaybia-majora-deactivated20160 answered:

My children wouldn’t feel the need to “identify” as anything other than themselves because they understand that how they look and what they wear doesn’t change anything. They are smart enough to know that sex can’t be changed and that nothing is “feminine” or “masculine”.  

dbrvnk:

I can totally see what you are saying with this. At the same time though… it does seem like you are seriously underestimating the influence of the outside world on children. Kids can and do develop certain identities/disorders regardless of how their parents raise them—whether that’s an eating disorder or a gender identity disorder—and it really doesn’t help much to tell a child with an obsessive hatred of/dissociation from their own body that that body is perfect the way it is, any more than it would help an anorexic.

What I’m saying is… accept that we live in a society that hates gender nonconformance, a society where kids become trans. Your parenting can try to prevent that, but you’ve got no guarantee of succeeding. Certainly go after adults and authority figures who try to pressure kids into transitioning (doctors etc) but like… if a child wants to transition and is feeling suicidal or wants to hurt themselves because of it, it really does not help to say ‘oh just do feminine/masculine things, don’t mutilate your beautiful body!’, that’s like telling a person with depression ‘but you have it so good! look at all the wonderful things you have!’. It makes matters worse and entrenches the need to transition even more firmly in the kid.

I’m not a parent so I can’t offer any actual advice, but I think it’s important for gender-critical parents to move away from the idea that ‘in an ideal world, no one would ever have to transition!’. First of all that’s not necessarily true, second of all, we don’t live in that world. Support people with sex/gender dysphoria, support people who transition, support people who detransition (this is important! detransitioning is not a horrible fate of doom)—reserve your criticism and negativity for the industries that create them, the ‘allies’ pushing dubious theory, and ofc the late transitioning rich white male fetishists who are even making this a whole thing in the first place

I mean I don’t intend any offense or anything and I have no idea what your situation is irl, maybe this isn’t even relevant to you lol. But it is one place I think there’s kind of a ‘generation gap’ of understanding and maybe that’s why this post is causing so many arguments? I don’t even know I can delete this if it’s stupid

You raise some interesting points here. There is such a delicate balance with teenagers, who tend to discount their parents’ advice and opinions about just about everything. And at this stage of life, it’s easy to want to act NOW, future consequences be damned.

It’s hard to “support” transition itself if you really feel (as I do) that it would be harmful. What I can do is understand why a person would want to transition, and point to alternatives. I just wish “gender” therapists and trans activists showed more interest in those alternatives.

And yeah: the people driving this runaway train are “the ‘allies’ pushing dubious theory, and ofc the late transitioning rich white male fetishists who are even making this a whole thing in the first place.”

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“Young teens go into these communities with problems that are incredibly typical, like feelings of not fitting in with peers, or liking clothing or activities that are seen as being “for” the opposite sex. They are told that even questioning their gender means that they are trans, and to get on puberty blockers or hormones as soon as possible. Again and again, the idea that taking one’s life is a natural and inevitable consequence of not being able to get these medications is reinforced.”

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Neuroplasticity: the gaping logic hole in the transgender house of cards

One of the key discoveries of neuroscience in the late 20th and early 21st centuries is the extraordinary malleability of the human brain throughout the life span.  Neuroplasticity—the ability of even an adult brain to change firing patterns and regenerate neurons in response to experience—is yet another aspect of settled human knowledge that is being ignored in the rush to diagnose children and adolescents as transgender and in need of medical intervention.

But you don’t even need the latest findings in neuroscience to poke a giant hole in transactivist logic. Long before scientists established that adult brains are so malleable, it has been known that kids’ brains are far more neuroplastic than those of adults. It’s why a child can recover near total function after a brain injury or stroke in a way an adult cannot. It’s why kids become fluent in multiple languages with no “foreign” accent. Their brains have to be plastic–how else could they learn and change throughout childhood?

Those involved in transgender activism and pediatric treatment—who say they have science on their side—have a standard line about puberty blockers, the use of “preferred pronouns,”  and all the rest of the childhood gender dysphoria dogma: “It won’t harm the child.  Only the truly transgendered will choose medical transition after puberty. The rest (the majority) will choose their natal sex.” (Of course there are no published studies on this, although there is plenty of data showing that most gender dysphoric kids grow up to be gay, lesbian, or bisexual if simply left alone by “gender specialists” and scared parents.)

But the assertion that pediatric gender therapists and MDs are doing no harm (like the rest of the flimsy rationalizations they use) flies in the face of basic, settled neuroscience.

Because of neuroplasticity, those kids who have been “identified as” transgender and treated as the opposite sex throughout childhood will be influenced and molded by that experience (as they are molded by all the other experiences they have). In effect, they will learn the idea that their bodies “don’t match” their gender via their childhood experiences. Unlike any other transient childhood fantasy (e.g., that they are actually Batman), they will be repeatedly validated in the idea that biological reality–their actual bodies–is mistaken, and must eventually be changed to match their subjective feelings. What they think, even how their brains are wired, will be influenced by what they are told, and how they are treated by everyone around them. What would happen if a child with body integrity identity disorder (BIID) was repeatedly validated in the idea that (say) their left leg was “wrong” and should eventually be amputated?

Every other field of science has taken neuroplasticity into account in decisions about best treatment. For the current treatments for gender dysphoric kids to make any sense at all, you have to believe that the brain is fixed, unchangeable from birth, and completely impervious to life experience. In other words—the exact opposite of what reams of brain research and clinical experience have taught us in the last several decades.

This antiquated notion of a static brain creates such a huge logical hole in the pediatric transgender rationale, the entire flimsy edifice should eventually collapse if scientists and clinicians ever get the courage to base their treatments and recommendations on actual evidence and science.

                                         *******

Postscript: Think I’m wrong? I’d love to see some researchers step up to do a longitudinal study comparing two groups of adults who were: (1.) Dysphoric kids who were sent to gender therapists and called by their preferred pronouns, given puberty blockers, and otherwise validated in their idea that they are “trapped in the wrong body”  and (2.) Dysphoric kids who were supported for just being themselves, regardless of gender stereotypes, as the sex and in the bodies they were born with, with no messaging or validation from “specialists” or parents that they are the opposite sex. How many remain dysphoric as adults and move on to medical transition after childhood?

Who’s recruiting? (Hint: no one.) Time to get started!

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“There is not one straightforward explanation for the increase in referrals but it’s important to note that gender expression is diversifying, which makes it all the more important that young people have the opportunity to explore and develop their...

There is not one straightforward explanation for the increase in referrals but it’s important to note that gender expression is diversifying, which makes it all the more important that young people have the opportunity to explore and develop their own path with the support of specialist services.”

If “gender expression” is truly diversifying, why not leave these kids alone to, you know, express themselves  without the “support” of “specialist services.” 

With support like that….why, you might even get a diagnosis! 

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Online article dated 8th April 2015 is behind a paywall.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/article4404513.ece

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