mazomazohyst

Anonymous asked:

Hi, I just wanted to say that trans women are born with physiologically female brains (scientifically and medical proved) and vice versa, trans people can't really help but to transition... It's inevitable.. Just wanted to say this if you thought being trans was some sort of decision

4thwavenow answered:

Except that there is no such scientific proof. The few studies that have been done have been of adults, many of whom had already “transitioned” and/or taken hormones (so causality cannot be inferred). And those few studies have been refuted.

In order to prove being transgender is innate, researchers would have to do brain scans of a huge number of newborn babies who had had zero life experience outside the womb. Then those babies would have to be left alone, allowed to grow up with no one telling them they are the opposite sex (since experience molds kids’ brains). The people would have to be followed into adulthood, and then the scans from infancy compared. There would have to be some indication that the babies’ brains differed as indicated by their declared identity as adults. You’d also have to have a large control group of babies who grew up not thinking they were the opposite sex, and find a brain region that strongly correlated “felt” gender with actual sex in the two groups.

No such research has been done. No one is recruiting babies for such studies. In fact, the research that has been done shows that the vast majority (75% or more) of gender dysphoric kids outgrow the feeling of being the opposite sex and grow up to be gay or lesbian.

mazomazohyst:

http://www.jpehs.co.uk/2013/12/03/brain-scans-prove-there-is-no-difference-between-male-and-female-brains/vulvapeople:

cool-daniela-fan:

sxnsesfailure:

justfeministhings:

real-justice-tea-cup:

justfeministhings:

celtyradfem:

justfeministhings:

celtyradfem:

justfeministhings:

celtyradfem:

justfeministhings:

celtyradfem:

justfeministhings:

“I know more than actual scientists.”

I know more than you on this topic. The actual scientists have already disproved the brain sex theory. Remember you were the one going around making the psuedo scientific claim trans women have ‘female brains’ (they don’t). You made the false claim not us. The studies that made the claim that trans women have ‘female brains‘ were faulty and don’t hold up to higher standards. Also it doesn’t take a genius to figure out the claim is bullshit. Go read Delusions of gender by Cordelia Fine it is all about neurosexism and gender socialisation (if femininity or masculinity is socialised it isn’t innate).

“Go read propaganda it’ll make you change your mind”
Lmao no thanks. I’d rather listen to actual scientists than some dumbass who thinks sex isn’t real yet blames all their problems on men

No dickhead radfems know biological sex is real (you are thinking of trans activists) we are arguing that they brain sex theory is bullshit and the real scientists (who aren’t feminists) have shown that the sexist lady brain theory is bullshit. Sure there are differences between the average woman and man’s brain but that doesn’t mean that we have a ‘lady brain’ (naturally can’t do maths, are more suited to housework, have brains more suited to being subservient etc.)

The brain is influenced by external factors and adapts to the environment because that is how humans survive. If trans women had female brains (meaning femininity was innate and some males are born with wiring just like a woman’s) why would they need hormones, therapy and femininity lessons? How come gender non conforming women exist? Also if their is such thing as a lady brain how come women are pressured to act ‘ladylike‘? If it was innate we wouldn’t need to be pressured into femininity.

Actual scientists have already shown that the brain is more malleable than people think and femininity and masculinity (gender roles) is more cultural than biological. Also Cordelia Fine is legitimate go read the book. Also arguing against neurosexism isn’t propaganda but you claiming trans women have ‘female brains‘ is (not actually backed by science).

Okay but:

Men and women have different brains.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/men-women-different-brains1.htm

http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2013/12/08/study-the-brains-of-men-and-women-are-different-very-different/

http://www.livescience.com/41619-male-female-brains-wired-differently.html

Also, all your questions have presumably been answered in this post.

Incidentally:

http://www.dsm5.org/documents/gender%20dysphoria%20fact%20sheet.pdf

Thanks.

How much is socialisation and how much is is biological? That is pretty fucking important. Also male scientists often biased and try to ‘prove’ women are naturally feminine and/or inferior. The brain sex theory has been used to discriminate against women for centuries so it is more than a little bullshit when trans women (male) claim to have it despite a lack of hard science to back it up. 

Your earlier claim was that trans women have ‘female brains’ there isn’t real evidence to suggest that. If you believe is ‘lady brain‘ why do you think some males have it that is rather contradictory. All the explanations for it are really just speculation.

scientificradfem and appropriately-inappropriate do you have anything to add?

So basically you’re saying science isn’t real because it discriminates against women? If you clicked on the links you’d actually see that mostly, it’s biological. And I already gave you sources backing up the fact that trans women have more female (not fully female, my bad) brains than cis men do.

Your reading comprehension is a bit off. I am asking how much is socialised and how much is biological. I stated that there isn’t enough hard science to prove that some men have were born with a ’female brain’ (there isn’t). I also stated that male researchers are often biased because they want to ‘prove‘ their pre-existing conclusions about women. You should research on that. Your links aren’t necessarily true. 

Transwomen don’t have ‘more female brains‘ taking artificial hormones doesn’t mean your brain is female. I have seen how trans activists behave and they do not act like women do they act like the typical misogynist man. If they had ‘female brains’ how come so many transwomen have the same criminality rate as the general male population?

There no such thing as ‘cisgender‘ or ’cissexism’. If you want to claim there is do you have anything to say about the ‘some women have penises‘, ‘some men have vaginas‘ and ‘men get abortions too’ rhetoric trans activists often say?  Or how they say that their penises aren’t female? (because they ‘identify’ as women/female).

My reading comprehension is fine. That’s how I know you’re incredibly stupid in trying to say scientists want to oppress women.

Dysphoria is not “I’m a man that knows how to turn on a vacuum.” It’s “my body is wrong”

What

They’re saying that the other commenter (the fucktard saying that science is misogynistic) is basically equating being fucking transsexual to defying gender stereotypes like being a man that cleans the house.

Scientists can definitely be prejudiced - look at the “negro brain” theory.

Also, check out Gina Rippon’s work.

If brain sex is real and trans women have “female” brains, why do so many exhibit typical male behavior?  Why are they so entitled?  Why do they make everything about them?  Why do they threaten women with rape and murder?  Why are a significant number of them in prison for pedophilia, rape, and/or murder?  Why does the most comprehensive study on trans women indicate that they retain male pattern violence post-transition?

You can’t have it both ways.  Either brain sex is real, and trans women’s behavior makes it clear that they don’t have “female” brains, or it isn’t real, and trans women’s behavior makes it clear they were the beneficiaries of male socialization.  Which is it?

THE. IS. NO. Female. Brain.  Shut up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10684179/Men-and-women-do-not-have-different-brains-claims-neuroscientist.html

http://www.jpehs.co.uk/2013/12/03/brain-scans-prove-there-is-no-difference-between-male-and-female-brains/

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/07/brain-science-ditch-male-female-cliche

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-neurosexism-feeds-stereotypes-about-mens-and-womens-brains

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576241/Men-NOT-Mars-Scientist-claims-male-female-brains-gender-stereotyping-makes-different.html

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/study-shows-no-difference-between-male-or-female-brains-20140308-34e20.html


http://sexnotgender.com/brain-sex-does-not-exist/

http://theconversation.com/new-insights-into-gendered-brain-wiring-or-a-perfect-case-study-in-neurosexism-21083

http://recode.net/2014/10/09/neurosexism-brains-gender-and-tech/

http://womensenews.org/story/women-in-science/131212/calling-all-female-brains-stop-the-neurosexism

http://frithmind.org/socialminds/2014/12/11/neurosexism-a-conversation-with-cordelia-fine/

http://www.australianreview.net/digest/2012/11/burns.html

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life/the-gender-myth-20100908-151d3.html

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/culturelab/2010/09/fighting-back-against-neurosexism.html

http://cellularscale.blogspot.de/2012/02/neurosexism-and-delusions-of-gender.html

And then there’s this, by a neuroscientist. The only thing differentiating male/female brains is part of the hypothalamus responsible for cyclic ovulation. That’s it. 

http://www.bu.edu/wgs/files/2013/10/Scarbrough-Womens-Liberation-is-Based-on-Sex-not-Gender.pdf

And I stand by my original post: The only way to prove innate differences between male/female brains would be MRI studies of large numbers of  infants who had no exposure to life experience yet. 

The brain is plastic. It is MOLDED by experience. Any studies of brains of living human beings who are having experiences (i.e., pretty much everyone past the immediate post-natal period) are inherently flawed. It’s risible that most people pushing the male/female brain meme generally rely on the Zhou et al studies, which were of long-time, adult transsexuals who had **already** been on hormone treatments for years.

And here: 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3176412/

The author concludes: “There are no “true” “male” and “female” brains out there to discover. The true nature of the brain is that its form is highly variable. This variability is created by the interaction of genes (on sex chromosomes and on autosomal chromosomes), hormones (gonadal and others) and environment, in utero and throughout life.” 

mazomazohyst transgender research

On the trail of the GID diagnosis, 2000: Into the heart of the homophobic beast

Nearly every day, there is a glowing media report about the latest 5-year-old who has been identified as transgender. But one of many examples:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/04/23/parents-share-5-year-old-sons-transgender-journey/

This headlong rush to diagnose minors who are gender nonconforming as “transgender” children needing psychological and medical intervention is a relatively new phenomenon, picking up speed only in the last decade or so.  

In searching the clinical and research literature for the origin and motives behind the diagnosis of GID, I came upon this paper by Nancy Bartlett et al, published in the journal Sex Roles, December 2000. This article (original behind a firewall, but a copy linked here), critiques the DSM IV and the diagnosis of GID as fundamentally flawed and homophobic. The paper is chock-full of citations to studies indicating that gender dysphoria in children is generally transient. I’ll let the authors speak for themselves with the below excerpts. Page numbers refer to the original (firewalled) version.

I’ll say it again (and again and again): The current medical and media message is: “trans until proven otherwise.” This should be seen as malpractice, because sending small children to “gender therapists” and supporting and amplifying their (most likely transient) conviction that they are the opposite sex puts them on the conveyer belt to later medically “transition”—a lifetime of drugs and surgeries.  How many of these young children being currently diagnosed, if left alone, would have grown up to be non-dysphoric gay and lesbian people? At the rate this is all going, we will never know.


(pg 761)

There is a lack of empirical evidence to support the notion of distress caused directly by GID …Certainly, child distress does not seem to be a common reason for referral of children with GID. Rather, the basis for clinical referral is more often parents’ or teachers’ concern regarding the child’s “intense involvement in overt cross-gender play” or the parents’ desire to prevent homosexuality in their child.

 …It has been proposed that distress among at least some children with GID is simply a response to having their desired manner of behaving thwarted (Di Ceglie, 1995; Meyer & Dupkin, 1985; Stoller, 1975; Sugar, 1995; Zucker, 2000). In the literature there are numerous accounts to support such a supposition.

 (p 770)

 Regardless of the fact that homosexuality is not officially considered a disordered outcome, the prevention of homosexuality remains a significant reason for referral of children with GID. It would be naive to believe that prevention of homosexuality is not a motivating factor for at least some of the clinicians who work with children referred for gender-atypicality. Indeed, some researchers and clinicians in the area of GID in children are quite open about such a goal, writing books (e.g., Rekers, 1982, 1991) or belonging to organizations devoted to the prevention of homosexuality (e.g., L. Loeb: see www.narth.com/menus/advisors.html). Thus, although the issue of the risk associated with a homosexual outcome should be moot, it is not. It is crucial that researchers and clinicians in the area of GID in children recognize that the most likely outcome for children with GID, with or without treatment (Green, 1987), is homosexuality, and that homosexuality is a nondisordered outcome. Only a very few children with GID continue to have GID as adolescents or adults.

(p 773)

Retrospective data show that homosexual men and women remember higher rates of childhood cross-gender behavior than do their heterosexual counterparts (see Bailey & Zucker, 1995, for a review). Data from retrospective studies of gay men and lesbians tend to indicate similar childhood gender nonconforming experiences as do prospective studies (cf. Phillips & Over, 1992). Compared to their heterosexual counterparts, for example, more gay men and lesbians recall having enjoyed “cross-gender” activities, dressing like the other sex, and pretending to be the other sex (Bell, Weinberg, & Hammersmith, 1981).

( p775)

…Moreover, much empirical evidence points to GID in those children as nothing more than a conflict between the individual and society, given that the most likely psychosexual outcome, whether a child does or does not receive treatment for GID, is homosexuality. Several authors have noted that it is ironic that the DSM-IV has a category for a childhood psychopathology for which the most likely predicted outcome is homosexuality, which has not been formally considered a pathology for over a quarter of a century (Fagot, 1992; Green, 1994). Labelling children as gender-disturbed when their most likely psychosexual outcome is homosexual is of questionable value, when the DSM-IV does not include this outcome as disordered. It is troubling that in the current peer-reviewed literature, despite it not being officially considered a mental disorder, homosexuality continues to be labelled as a “sex-role disturbance,” a “severe sexual problem,” or even a “diagnosis” (e.g., Dahl, 1988; Rekers, 1986).

 (p 773)

 Ironically, it seems to have been generally accepted in the literature that children with GID are at high risk for adolescent or adult GID (see APA, 1987; Bradley & Zucker, 1990; Rekers, Bentler, Rosen, & Lovaas, 1977; Rosen, Rekers, & Bentler, 1978; Zucker, 1985; Zucker&Green, 1992). Indeed, this line of reasoning has provided much of the basis for endorsing treatment for children with GID, which is unsettling given that a relatively large body of empirical evidence points to GID in adolescence or adulthood as being an outcome for only a small percentage of children with GID.

(p 777)

The previous notion of sexual inversion, and more recently, of homosexuality as mental disorders should be a reminder to mental health professionals about psychiatry’s power to pathologize those who do not fit the social norm (Bem, 1993). With homosexuality as the most likely psychosexual outcome for a child with GID, APA’s Position Statement on Homosexuality is relevant. In 1993, the American Psychiatric Association’s Committee on Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues of the Council on National Affairs called on organizations and individuals to “do all that is possible to decrease the stigma related to homosexuality wherever and whenever it may occur” (p. 686). It seems as though the inclusion of GID in children as it appears in the DSM-IV does little in responding to this appeal. Although the focus of this paper was on GID in children, it raises a larger question about the concept of “pathology” in general. To what extent do other “disorders” represent conditions that simply violate societal norms?

transgender research DSM GID trans kids gender nonconforming kids GNC kids
appropriately-inappropriate

Anonymous asked:

Hi, I just wanted to say that trans women are born with physiologically female brains (scientifically and medical proved) and vice versa, trans people can't really help but to transition... It's inevitable.. Just wanted to say this if you thought being trans was some sort of decision

4thwavenow answered:

Except that there is no such scientific proof. The few studies that have been done have been of adults, many of whom had already “transitioned” and/or taken hormones (so causality cannot be inferred). And those few studies have been refuted.

In order to prove being transgender is innate, researchers would have to do brain scans of a huge number of newborn babies who had had zero life experience outside the womb. Then those babies would have to be left alone, allowed to grow up with no one telling them they are the opposite sex (since experience molds kids’ brains). The people would have to be followed into adulthood, and then the scans from infancy compared. There would have to be some indication that the babies’ brains differed as indicated by their declared identity as adults. You’d also have to have a large control group of babies who grew up not thinking they were the opposite sex, and find a brain region that strongly correlated “felt” gender with actual sex in the two groups.

No such research has been done. No one is recruiting babies for such studies. In fact, the research that has been done shows that the vast majority (75% or more) of gender dysphoric kids outgrow the feeling of being the opposite sex and grow up to be gay or lesbian.

appropriately-inappropriate:

The study they’re referring to is Zhou et al., which used the brains of a handful of post-mortem long term transitioners–none of whom had been on hormones for LESS than five years, and many who had been on them for over a quarter century.

Since hormones affect the brain, it’s probable that these post-mortem findings were simply the result of these pre-mortem hormones, and not an innate aspect of the brain.

In fact, as recently as two or three weeks ago, scientists in Nature and a couple other academic journals were talking about the fact that, after making a neurological map of male and female brains in situ via MRIs, they determined that the ONLY difference in male and female brains at the outset is a difference in size, and THAT can be directly attributed to the volume of the cranial cavity and nothing else.

ALL subsequent brain sex theories use Zhou, so they’re all bunk too

And yet, the activists continue to scream that people who identify as transgender were “born that way.” And anyone who questions the fact that an increasing number of young children and teens are being put on the conveyer belt to transition is a bigot.

appropriately-inappropriate transgender research

Anonymous asked:

Look, I disagree strongly with your views, but I'm going to try and assume the best for a minute and guess that you're not British, and you don't get the Daily Mail in your country. It is literally the worst source you could use. Period. Like Britain's Fox News but worse. They have repeatedly been known to just straight up bullshit stories. If you can find another, more reliable source that claims doctors are diagnosing 18 month olds, sure, maybe, but until then, it's probably bs.

So, I do know that many in the UK call the Mail the “Daily Fail” and it’s not everyone’s favorite daily rag. However, it is one of the major dailies in the UK, widely read (for better or worse), along with the Independent, the Times, and the Guardian. My point in reblogging the comment that linked to the Mail is that it is saying the same thing all the rest of the media–both liberal and conservative–are: that kids who identify as transgender are born that way (with no evidence whatsoever), while completely ignoring the actual research (which I’ve linked to many times, including page 11 of the latest WPATH Standards of Care) which says that most kids (75-94% depending on the study) who declare they are the opposite sex end up growing out of it.  My aim, if it wasn’t clear from my original reblog, is to critique the message the media are feeding the public. But your comment inspires me to do a post that collects a few of these mainstream media stories, specifically from the UK, to reiterate this point. Thanks. 

transgender research transgender media portrayals

Neuroplasticity: the gaping logic hole in the transgender house of cards

One of the key discoveries of neuroscience in the late 20th and early 21st centuries is the extraordinary malleability of the human brain throughout the life span.  Neuroplasticity—the ability of even an adult brain to change firing patterns and regenerate neurons in response to experience—is yet another aspect of settled human knowledge that is being ignored in the rush to diagnose children and adolescents as transgender and in need of medical intervention.

But you don’t even need the latest findings in neuroscience to poke a giant hole in transactivist logic. Long before scientists established that adult brains are so malleable, it has been known that kids’ brains are far more neuroplastic than those of adults. It’s why a child can recover near total function after a brain injury or stroke in a way an adult cannot. It’s why kids become fluent in multiple languages with no “foreign” accent. Their brains have to be plastic–how else could they learn and change throughout childhood?

Those involved in transgender activism and pediatric treatment—who say they have science on their side—have a standard line about puberty blockers, the use of “preferred pronouns,”  and all the rest of the childhood gender dysphoria dogma: “It won’t harm the child.  Only the truly transgendered will choose medical transition after puberty. The rest (the majority) will choose their natal sex.” (Of course there are no published studies on this, although there is plenty of data showing that most gender dysphoric kids grow up to be gay, lesbian, or bisexual if simply left alone by “gender specialists” and scared parents.)

But the assertion that pediatric gender therapists and MDs are doing no harm (like the rest of the flimsy rationalizations they use) flies in the face of basic, settled neuroscience.

Because of neuroplasticity, those kids who have been “identified as” transgender and treated as the opposite sex throughout childhood will be influenced and molded by that experience (as they are molded by all the other experiences they have). In effect, they will learn the idea that their bodies “don’t match” their gender via their childhood experiences. Unlike any other transient childhood fantasy (e.g., that they are actually Batman), they will be repeatedly validated in the idea that biological reality–their actual bodies–is mistaken, and must eventually be changed to match their subjective feelings. What they think, even how their brains are wired, will be influenced by what they are told, and how they are treated by everyone around them. What would happen if a child with body integrity identity disorder (BIID) was repeatedly validated in the idea that (say) their left leg was “wrong” and should eventually be amputated?

Every other field of science has taken neuroplasticity into account in decisions about best treatment. For the current treatments for gender dysphoric kids to make any sense at all, you have to believe that the brain is fixed, unchangeable from birth, and completely impervious to life experience. In other words—the exact opposite of what reams of brain research and clinical experience have taught us in the last several decades.

This antiquated notion of a static brain creates such a huge logical hole in the pediatric transgender rationale, the entire flimsy edifice should eventually collapse if scientists and clinicians ever get the courage to base their treatments and recommendations on actual evidence and science.

                                         *******

Postscript: Think I’m wrong? I’d love to see some researchers step up to do a longitudinal study comparing two groups of adults who were: (1.) Dysphoric kids who were sent to gender therapists and called by their preferred pronouns, given puberty blockers, and otherwise validated in their idea that they are “trapped in the wrong body”  and (2.) Dysphoric kids who were supported for just being themselves, regardless of gender stereotypes, as the sex and in the bodies they were born with, with no messaging or validation from “specialists” or parents that they are the opposite sex. How many remain dysphoric as adults and move on to medical transition after childhood?

Who’s recruiting? (Hint: no one.) Time to get started!

gnc kids gnc teens trans kids trans teens gender critical neuroplasticity transgender gender dysphoria neuroscience transgender research transgender guinea pigs gender nonconforming teens gender nonconforming children